WoW Feral DPS Model

This World of Warcraft feral druid cat DPS and gear calculator was designed for the Classic Burning Crusade version of WoW. The calculator currently uses your un-buffed cat form stats, and models the optimal sustained DPS attack cycle using only Mangle, Shred, Rip, and shifting in and out of cat form. In the calculator output, one ‘kitty point’ is equivalent to one attack power. Note: the ‘weapon damage’ field is only for bonus weapon damage items like the Crystalforged Trinket or the ring enchant. For a discussion of the underlying formulas and mechanics used in this model, see this post.

29 thoughts on “WoW Feral DPS Model

  1. Graypaw

    Love your feral tank and dps Model <3
    and i specially love the Pawn string you make for tank.
    Is there any chance you could add in a pawn string for dps?=)

    Reply
    1. Toskk Post author

      Hi Graypaw,

      I’m glad you’re making use of the Feral models! It shouldn’t be too difficult to implement that Pawn scale output on the Cat model.. I’ll hopefully get that working and uploaded in the next day or so. Thanks,

      Toskk

      Reply
    2. Toskk Post author

      Hi Graypaw,

      Ok, version 3.2.2 of the cat model implements a Pawn scale. You may have to clear your site cache before the new version appears, though. Hopefully I got all of the naming conventions right, but let me know if the Pawn scale output doesn’t work properly. Thanks!

      Reply
  2. Graypaw

    hmm, some how my pawn now say that pure stat items like [A’dal’s Command] is 47% better then [Band of Eternity].
    And when i sim, it then i drop down in dps with [A’dal’s Command]
    Is the pawn string adding value with kings and raid buffs or something?=)

    Reply
        1. Graypaw

          Tested a bit and separating Attack power and Feral attack power helps on weapons, tho i have NO idea if this is correct values or if they should be the same. =P

          ( Pawn: v1: “Cat Gray”: Strength=0.518, Agility=0.6788, Ap=0.2286, FeralAp=0.2286, HitRating=0.00, ExpertiseRating=0.5659, CritRating=0.4195, HasteRating=0.3573, ArmorPenetration=0.0683, Intellect=0.3947, Spirit=0.3942, RedSocket=5.4302, YellowSocket=5.4302, BlueSocket=5.4302, ColorlessSocket=5.4302, MetaSocket=30.6913, )

          Reply
          1. Toskk Post author

            Hi Graypaw,

            Ah yeah, it sounds like Pawn treats ‘feral attack power’ as a separate stat from regular attack power. They are indeed mathematically interchangeable, so you have that right in your modified output text. πŸ™‚ Did it need to be written as ‘Ap=’ to get it to recognize the stat? I used ‘AttackPower=’, as I wasn’t sure how Pawn references the stat. πŸ˜› I can get both of those fixed in model output easily.

            For the relative stat values list, I think you’ll probably want to check the box to ‘ignore hit/exp caps’ before getting your Pawn values. Otherwise it looks like Hit Rating has zero value (because you’re already hit capped), which will definitely affect the relative values of some items.

            Beyond that, hopefully everything will ‘work’ as well as it can for Pawn. Just keep in mind that Pawn doesn’t understand set bonuses, item procs, idols, etc. i.e. The model gear lists here will be much more accurate for those kinds of items. Also, because of how Pawn works, it’s generally going to (very slightly) undervalue most items. The way Pawn works, if it sees, for example, 10 Agility on an item, it will take the value for 1 Agi * 10.. which is very slightly inaccurate. Because attack power scales with critical hit chance (and vice versa), as one increases, the relative value of the other increases too. So 10 Agility is very slightly better than 1 Agility * 10. Or 10 Strength + 10 Crit Rating will be a little bit higher than 10 * the baseline relative stat values of each of those. Does that make sense? πŸ™‚ The model gear lists take this scaling into account, so I always recommend using them over something like a Pawn scale when accuracy really matters (to the limits of the accuracy of the feral models themselves, of course).

            If you have any other questions about the cat or bear models, please feel free to post them! I’ll get those Pawn values fixed in the output shortly. πŸ™‚

            Toskk

  3. Graypaw

    It looks like the String saying “AttackPower” it wont register.
    When i compared rings, the ring with Str was WAY better, because the one with attack power only registered as having agi and stam.
    So yeah i think the string need to rename it as “AP”and “feral attack power”.
    I manually changed them and now it seems to work just fine, even without using the box to β€˜ignore hit/exp caps’
    Other then that it seems to work great.
    And yes i know it is not going to be 100% accurate but it is to quickly see what i need to swap in a jiff =)

    Thank you again for making this, it is just amazing to have a good feral sim like this.
    <3

    Reply
    1. Toskk Post author

      Hi Obsidius,

      At the moment, I don’t have any solid documentation on the proc rate/chance on Madness of the Betrayer, so it’s simply modeled in the gear list as +100 (averaged) Armor Pen. So to replicate that in your stats/current gear, you’d just increase the Armor Pen field by 100. It would be nice to have a better model for that trinket, though, if you happen to have any data on how the proc works? Are there other trinkets you’d like in the interface options too? Thanks,

      Toskk

      Reply
  4. Sylonia

    I’m trying to figure out how to use the form properly. I have filled out the stats with my current gear set, then selected an item slot and generated the list. I am afraid that the slot in question now counts twice (once with the item I’m wearing now and once more with the item being simulated). Should I un-equip the item in the slot I intend to test before writing down my stats?

    Reply
    1. Toskk Post author

      Hi Sylonia,

      There is a “Remove the piece of gear with ID#:” field (at the bottom of the calculator) that will fix that issue of double-counting your own equipped item. If you just enter the ID number of the item you are currently wearing in the gear slot you want to examine, you can still enter your full/current gear stats and then that field will remove the excess stats from your equipped item before doing all of the calculations. Does that make sense? πŸ™‚

      Toskk

      Reply
      1. Sylonia

        Thanks for clarifying. As this isn’t obvious, it might be worth a tooltip on the input field.
        Alternatively, you could have a radio button to select the currently equipped item from the generated list. Then you wouldn’t even have to expose the item IDs. And maybe you could print relative Kitty Points from the currently equipped item. I think it makes upgrades easier to evaluate.
        Either way, highlighting the currently equipped item would also make the table easier to read, methinks.

        Reply
  5. Sylonia

    What is the powershifting strategy used by your model? I’m surprised that the Wolfshead Helmet ends up at the bottom of the list of Head gear options, when it’s recommended at the BiS until 2pT6 on all web sites.
    The Model Parameters say Powershifting every 15.53 sec, which seems very slow to me. Are you only powershifting after a finishing move (Rip or Ferocious Bite) maybe? Or did I set some parameter wrong? The suggestions I’ve seen on other sites is to powershifting every 4 seconds, or as soon as energy is below 20. That would be every other Shred (and after finishing moves, obviously). More frequent powershifting is what makes the Wolfshead Helmet very strong.

    Reply
    1. Toskk Post author

      Hy Sylonia,

      Hmm.. yeah, the Wolfshead helm should absolutely be ranking higher than that on the gear lists (it may well be BiS forever). Does it show up with kitty points at all? If it’s showing up worth zero kitty points/dps you’ll just need to uncheck it in your equipped gear list to get it to be evaluated correctly.. but it really should work via the remove item by ID field too.

      For the powershifting frequency, the very important field is the ‘fight duration’ one. The model compares your mana efficiency/regen with the fight duration to determine maximum powershifting rate.. and with good raid buffs (and a short-enough fight) it really should get down to around shifting every 4.6 seconds or so. Does that help at all?

      Reply
      1. Sylonia

        I stand corrected. My Raid Buffs (missing Elixir of Draenic Wisdom, no Blessing of Kings nor Blessing of Wisdom, no mana potion) and Fight Parameters (5-minute fight) were heavily disadvantageous to Wolfshead Helmet. With better buffs and a shorter fight, Wolfshead Helmet gets at the top of the list as expected. Sorry for the noise.

        Reply
  6. Sylonia

    Could you please add Idol of the Raven Goddess to the Set & Item Bonuses section? This is the recommended choice when a feral druid is in a group full of physical damage dealers.

    Reply
    1. Toskk Post author

      Hi Sylonia,

      That Idol would already be counted in your cat form stats when wearing it (it’s just 20 crit rating), so a checkbox won’t work for that one. πŸ™ You can compare it to other Idols using the gear list, though.. frustratingly it’s honestly usually a wash (or even an overall DPS loss) even with a very good group. This is assuming that you’re using full DPS gear and spec. e.g. If you’re primarily tanking, the Raven Goddess idol is typically very nice if you end up in a group of physical DPS, but if you’re actually in the group as DPS, the Raven Goddess Idol usually results in a net wash or loss of overall dps compared to other options. πŸ˜›

      Reply
    1. Toskk Post author

      Hi Sylonia,

      Yes, it looks like I’d already done the back-end coding needed for adding the Shard as a checkbox, so that one will be very easy to add. πŸ™‚ Are there any other phase 5 items that you would like added as checkboxes? πŸ™‚ Thanks,

      Toskk

      Reply
      1. Toskk Post author

        Ok, v3.2.3 adds the Shard of Contempt as a checkbox in the interface. Just remember that the 44 Expertise is actually included in your entered character sheet stats. i.e. The checkbox itself is only adding the effect of the AP proc. The Expertise portion is included via character sheet stats.

        Toskk

        Reply
      2. Sylonia

        Sorry for the late reply. I went through the list of trinket options and I think that Blackened Naaru Sliver and Madness of the Betrayer should be added as well. Thanks for your great work.

        Reply
        1. Toskk Post author

          Hi Sylonia,

          Hmm.. those two trinkets are currently just listed in the gear list with very rough stat-equivalent values. e.g. Madness of the Betrayer’s proc is estimated at a flat 100 armor pen. Unfortunately without better data on the actual proc chances and/or internal CD’s, that’s about the best I can do with those two trinkets, which makes it best to just add the values into your character sheet values, rather than using a separate checkbox for them. Would you happen to have any data on either trinket proc? πŸ™‚ I stopped playing the game during p2, so I haven’t been able to do any direct testing on mechanics in a while. πŸ˜›

          Toskk

          Reply
          1. Sylonia

            I don’t own either trinket so I will not be able to measure their proc rate, sorry.

  7. Sylonia

    Do I understand correctly that your model assumes a 100% Shred-based rotation as is standard when using the Wolfshead Helm? Would you be able and willing to add support for the Shred/Mangle rotation that becomes viable at high gear level thanks to the Thunderheart 2pc. bonus? This would let us compare the two options and decide which is best for us at a given gear level.

    Reply
  8. Toskk Post author

    Hi Sylonia,

    The current model(s) have two options.. without the ‘Assume Mangle is already up’ checkbox checked, the cycle (even with the Wolfshead Helm) uses one Mangle every (roughly) 12 seconds to keep maximal uptime on the Mangle debuff, and then the rest Shreds. With the checkbox checked, the cycle changes to just 100% Shreds. If you look at the model output section, it will show a breakdown of percentage of damage coming from each attack used, if that helps identify the attacks being used. πŸ™‚

    Switching to a Manglespam cycle is an interesting idea, however unfortunately although I could probably code preliminary support for it fairly easily, the interaction between the Wolfshead Helm (i.e. powershifting) and using primarily Mangle would require a lot of simulation to figure out reasonable values for. In the short term, you might keep an eye on the relative damage-per-energy (DPE) values for Mangle and Shred being output by the model. If the two ever start to get close, you might test out switching to Manglespam and seeing what difference it makes. I’m not still playing WoW to do any testing, but from my memory of original TBC it never actually became viable to drop Shreds (the AP scaling on Shred is just too good) at all.

    Reply
    1. Sylonia

      I know that playing without Wolfshead Helm wasn’t considered viable during the original Burning Crusade, but times have changed and it is now considered an option in Burning Crusade Classic. See for example section Armor for Feral Druid DPS in Phase 5, subsection Head of https://tbc.wowhead.com/guides/feral-druid-dps-swp-phase-5-best-in-slot-gear-burning-crusade .
      The idea is that the 2P T6 bonus makes one Shred + one Mangle fit within a powershifting cycle (42 + 35 ≀ 80 Energy). So it’s not about spamming Mangle, but instead about alternating Shred and Mangle. Despite the cycle suggested on Wowhead, it seems clear that we want to do Mangle first and then Shred, at least for the 1st cycle, unless a Bear is tanking the target and will put the initial Mangle debuff for us.

      Reply

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